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Monday, September 28, 2009

SOCIALIST CHRISTIANS: Dostoevsky's Fear or Hope? ~ discuss amongst yourselves.

~from Dostoevsky's The Brothers Karamazov, Book 2, Chapter 5, translated by Richard Peavear and Larissa Volokhonsky (pg 67) circa 1880.

Miusov describes his discussion with a spy - in larger context of debate about separation of Church and State:

Omitting the main essence of the conversation, I shall quote only one most curious remark that this person suddenly let drop: 'We are not, in fact, afraid of all these socialists, anarchists, atheists, and revolutionaries,' he said. 'We keep an eye on them, and their movements are known to us. But there are some special people among them, although not many: these are believers in God and Christians, and at the same time socialists. They are the ones we are most afraid of; they are terrible people! A socialist Christian is more dangerous than a socialist atheist.'

Discuss Amongst Yourselves.

While I play library-student and put the finishing touches on other Hot4Jesus posts, my book club reading brought to mind something I hear more and more about - Christian Socialists. Left-leaning Christians LOVE to describe how Jesus was a socialist kind of guy. I highly recommend that you put the quotation in context if possible - (for example - D appeared to die Orthodox Christian which evolved from a far-left youth) but if you can't/won't... it still is worthy of discussion.

So Discuss. Pros. Cons. Indifference. Jesus as Monster.
I insist... or I will send this your way:
500 foot Jesus found and described in detail in Uncyclopedia's article: "Attack of the 500 foot Jesus."


YogaforCynics said...

Now come on, Christine, we all know that, in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus defended the Bush tax cuts, the invasion of Iraq, and the right of every Christian to own at least two SUV's and a full arsenal of automatic weapons, and inveighed against gay marriage, the public option, environmental regulations, and black people being elected president of the United States. So stop being silly.

As for Dostoyevsky--he's proof that a person can simultaneously be the best novelist ever and a complete ass when it comes to politics and religion.

Christine Vyrnon said...

Dr.Jay: true - D was a dork - not necessarily in a good way - but he bothered to have a character say this - and within context it is fascinating - and a cheap and easy blog post. M is obviously freaking out from the ideal state turning into the Church debate...much like bloggers like to freak out. Isn't this discussion fun?!

Shanghai_or_Bust said...

'We keep an eye on them, and their movements are known to us.'

D noticed that everyone is always watching everyone else. In a type of guerilla social warfare, each group notices the others that move against it and tries to slip in under the radar. Those sneaky Socialst Christians are just very, very good at it.

Seeing Eye Chick said...

It seems to me, that using Jesus in this manner {regardless of your personal political leanings} turns him into nothing more than a prop, to justify this or that political affiliation.

Its a false power play. "I don't want to be responsible for my own political viewpoint, therefore I shall blame Jesus for making me be this way."

Jesus was a {fill-in-the-blank} therefore so am I.

Sort of like the same mind game that t-baggers and the like play with the American "Founding Fathers."

To me this smacks of intellectual dishonesty and causes me to want to check them for testicals and a spine. It makes me want to scream, "Own your position or shut the hell up!"

I don't care what Jesus thought. What I care about is, what is YOUR personal position, and if you are an authority figure, can you be an effective leader who deals with your constituency in a fair and equitable manner as per our laws.

Jesus is immaterial.

Patrick Oden said...

Just to comment on the "Jesus is immaterial" statement by Seeing Eye Chick. The double entendre is too funny!

Non-Christian: Jesus is immaterial.
Christian: Yes, Jesus is currently not in physical form.
Non-C: No, Jesus is insubstantial.
C: Yes-
Non-C: Argh, irrelevant.
C: Oh, that kind of immaterial.

Donn w/2nz said...

The Pope is not a huge fan of the liberation theology in South America...not that the Pope is a good example of the type of follower that Yeshua described.

In the Life Of Brian one of my favorite bits was when a bystander at the sermon on the mount said. "what thei Jesus fellow fails to understand is that the poor ARE the problem!"

It's entertaining to sit back and watch all of the self righteous southern fundies try to persuade us and themselves that Yeshua was a far-Right Pharisee who would have been appalled at the notion of poor people having access to if!

Shawngil2581 said...

As with everything else in Christendom, you have enough contradicting points of view in both testaments to allow yourself the luxury of cherry picking that which gets you off the hardest.

In all honesty though, even though I come from a deep south, jump for jesus background, with a family full of tea-baggers(of the protesting variety, as far as I want to think about anyway), I seem to think the Christian as Socialist idea a more natural fit.

Thanks for subscribing to my stumbleupon crap. I returned the favor and then found your blogs. Fun stuff. I'll definitely be checking in later.

Lucky Archer - Lakis Velotris said...

The Gangreen Papotricharch on the environment, Olympia Buckles Snow on health care, and Arriana Stashingolives Huffington on Fox prove that we must evangelize Greece for the Gospel and capitalism. Their Orthodox faith is the root harlot of communism!Palamite Zealotes massacred Thessalonian aristocracy in preparation for Cantacuzene usurpation which brought about hesychast hyperventilatory hallutination. This soviet socialism motivated Anatolian farmers to embrace Turks in the 1400s to avoid redistributative taxation and then for liberated mainlanders to migrate to Smyrna in the 1800s.

非凡 said...

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Anonymous said...

If Jesus is immaterial why waste all this blogging time? If he is immaterial to you then talk about something else.
You don't know me, therefore I am immaterial. However, to those who love me, I am valuable and it is irrelevant to me whether you think I am immaterial or not.
This seems like the perfect place to keep adding more junk into your 'christian' baggage. Guess if you had never been brought up in a 'christian' environment and hadn't built a childhood fantasy that fell apart when an adult, your blog would be about something else entirely.
After reading through the blogs, it has become obvious that you never knew Jesus at all. You sound like you accepted all the church claptrap into your heart and missed him altogether. You can send up christianity and Jesus but the real truth is that everyday people die rather than renounce the name of Jesus. Christianity is the only universally persecuted religion and it is nice to see that you are adding your bit to keep that going.
By the way, I am not looking for agreement or disagreement. These are MY thoughts alone.

Christine Vyrnon said...

Dear Mr.Ms Anonymous. Thank you for wasting your time by reading and then wasting more of your time by sharing thoughts that are YOUR thoughts ALONE. You have opened my eyes to a fresh new perspective on everything you have said. I stand corrected. Everything I have written on this blog is immaterial and your interpretation on this is absolutley correct. And this here comment is immaterial because you are wise enough to know that it doesn't matter whether or not I praise your anonymous comment. I'm honestly glad I have given you an opportunity to share you wisdom. But even that happiness I find in providing you an outlet for your wisdom is immaterial. I think you say it best:
By the way, I am not looking for agreement or disagreement. These are MY thoughts alone.

You don't know me, therefore I am immaterial. However, to those who love me, I am valuable and it is irrelevant to me whether you think I am immaterial or not.

Kitty said...

Umm, Anonymous, Judaism is also pretty widely persecuted. We see it in hate crimes today and during the Holocaust. Christianity is NOT the only universally persecuted religion in the world. Anywhere narrowminded,cowardly, and ignorant people live, you can bet there's gonna be some religious persecution going on.

M.A.C. said...


I am a socialist believer in Jesus Christ! Does that mean they are watching me, well I hope so, watch this!